Warner,

I would beg to differ. Many desktops, laptops and Tablets also will not run Aero, MovieMaker or burn DVDs. Inability to run Aero didn't come as a surprize to those of us following and using Vista betas, but no MovieMaker or DVD burn did. Running Vista ugrade advisor warns of no Aero but mentions nothing about these other popular apps.

The average consumer may not be concerned with Microsoft's vision of connecting every device. They just want to use their computers which may be little more than 1 year old. They may be photographers and home movie buffs. They'll run upgrade advisor and find Aero will not run but no mention of MovieMaker and DVD burn which they use often. "No big deal" they'll say, "Vista has many other great features I like". They'll either upgrade or perform a fresh install because they don't know or care what a dual boot is. They'll discover Windows Photo Gallery which is destined, I believe, to be a great application. They'll collect some images in Photo Gallery, click Make a Movie, then receive a big shock. What they perceive as a new computer will NOT truly run Vista. This will NOT be misplaced consternation.

I'm a Microsoft and Vista fan. I understand they sometimes lead us kicking and screaming into a better future. But most consumers, for which this next release of Vista targets, do not. The average consumer doesn't read the Microsoft small print or buy several new computers each year. I believe a storm may be brewing as a result of Vista.

Wow Warner. You sound like high-end PC user! Come on. We need to be fighting for the 'low power computing' cause, and not supporting efforts to expire the current range of UMPCs.

Sorry about this but I have to strongly disagree with you.

Yes, for a long time we have been preparing ourselves for the lack of Aero and the lack of WDDM support for the 915 chipset. It is old news (thanks to the early testers.) Unfortunately, the testers were right. The DirectX 9 capable chipset in the 915 is actually not good enough for Microsofts DirectX 9 standards and wddm drivers are not going to be produced. No Aero.

The issue we're talking about here has nothing to do with old or new news though. The issue here is that MS are blocking unspecified apps based on unspecified criteria. No-one even knows if this applies to 3rd party apps. Will the Vista version of iTunes (which already requires 3D graphics support) get blocked by Vista on 'sub-standard' hardware? There are still unanswered questions. Its still current news.

Technology is not advancing as fast as some think. This issue isn't going to be solved with a quick raft of 945 graphics chipset upgrades. We already know that no-one likes a 2-hour UMPC so there are going to be even more limitations if you want to run Vista on a UMPC. HID issues, 800x600 screen requirement are two more that are going to cause problems. Its no wonder that the Origami team had to write a UMPC-focused package. Its clear now that Microsoft needs a sweetener for UMPC users.

The only thing I like about this whole cock-up is that VIA now has to focus more than ever on low-end, long battery life consumer UMPCs with Windows XP or Linux. Vista UMPC's remain a business-user only option in 2007 and probably well into 2008. VIA has a nice open space to play in. Nokia/Maemo and Pepper too.

Regards
Steve.

Steve, I agree with you that Microsoft and/or 3rd party app suppliers should be crystal clear what runs on Vista and what doesn't. I don't understand why you say that Vista UMPC's will remain a business-user only device.
FYI OQO are claiming that their new Via device is Vista compatible. Click on the GBM link to the Pod Tech.net OQO video.

Believe me, I get more and more acquainted with my hardware's limitations daily. However, I do think that we should be able to expect that we can do the same things in Vista that we could in XP, and I have used Movie Maker to edit short screen capture videos on my R2H and other video on my 4 yr-old ViewSonic V1250, and the specs on it aren't much different; they both have 768mb RAM, and the V1250 has a 1GHz Pentium M processor vs. the R2H's (newer) 900MHz Celeron M. While the Asus can pull more memory for video (128mb, instead of 64mb), I can put more memory in it than I can in the V1250, which is maxed out.

I can't make an argument for DVD Maker, if all it does is burn movies. I won't miss it.

I'm not talking about adding functionality, I'm talking about keeping it. I believe they can do better now. Either that, or Vista + past capabilities would strangle current machines, which would lead us to ask why a new OS means doing less with the same machine (oh, wait, I think we're asking that now).

Hi Warner/Dennis.

What you think your UMPC should do or what MS tell you about what the UMPC should do is pretty much a null argument. The point is that MS are disabling components on software, not communicating this, appearing not to support current hardware and THUS pushing the consumer UMPC hardware requirements and pricing up higher than is required. Yes, trade-offs do need to be made but this is an unnecessary one.

You *can* use a UMPC as your main PC and those that have the user-profile to do so shouldn't get locked out of choices or forced to pay more for the same functionality because of silly software decisions.

I know its a fight that you just can't have against Microsoft. They will win in this case but the point needs to be made.

Regards
Steve.

I'm loving this discussion. Really illustrates Microsoft's big weakness going into the future: they don't control hardware. They don't build the operating system to fit the hardware; OEMs build the hardware to fit the OS.

Even if MS gave a compatibility list for upgraded Vista features, like Movie Maker, the combination of components could jinx the system. Processor, memory, video cards, drivers, even if you hit the minimum requirements for all, the software might not work properly with a given configuration.

That being the case, it makes sense that Vista should not install upgraded features that will not work properly with the hardware. However, I don't see why it can't install an older, compatible version instead. If the new version of Movie Maker won't work properly with the hardware, the install should default to an older version that will. Seems like a logical workaround to me.

Warner, for your information. I have been creating short movies for www.todoumpc.com using WMovieMaker in my Q1. Probably it's a bit slower than if I use my notebook but it does the work.

The main point is why we can't install the older version if the new does not work?

I've been playing with home computers since the Altair 8800 came onto the scene, though I never built the MITS kit. Along the way I've messed with Commodores, TRS-80, Apple ][, Amiga, Xerox, KayPro, Osborne, Sinclair, IBM... you name it. With one exception, I can recall no "upgrade" that did not result in orphaned apps - or what folks some here are characterizing as lost "functionality". (The one exception is CP/M, where my applications always seemed to work under newer versions of the OS.) I put quotes are around the word "functionality" because I don't think it is being applied properly in the context of this discussion. As I understand things, we are not losing functionality with the Vista OS upgrade. The functionality remains - enhanced, in fact - but we require updated apps/chipsets/hardware to take exploit the new OS capabilites. Hobbling the OS to accommodate older apps is not an "upgrade" at all but merely a sidestep IMHO.

I sense much of the frustration over the "Movie Maker" issue is simply that loyal users of that application do not feel adequately informed their favorite app has hit a wall. I've experienced this many times over the past 32 years and can only offer a "Yeah, it sucks." followed by a quick "But you'll get over it." :)