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Tuesday, April 22, 2008

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Mobile PCs don't need or benefit from 64-bit Vista

- Craig Pringle

thinker_sm There have been a couple of posts recently about lack of support for certain functionality in 64-bit Windows environments. 

James Kendrick pointed out that the Send to OneNote feature is missing in the 64-bit version of the OS.

GBM provided the bad news that there is not going to be a fix for the current version of Office.

David Rasmussen provided some valuable context around why the Send to OneNote feature is not there on the 64-bit OS and why it is not going to be fixed in this version.

Drivers must be fully ported from 32 bit to 64 bit to work on 64 bit OSes. 32 bit Application code works on 64 bit OSes on top of an emulation layer (called WOW64 or Windows on Windows 64), so getting the application code to work is not too hard. Drivers are a whole different story though because they hook into the OS at a lower level and can't run on WOW64 emulation. Also, older drivers tend to contain a lot of low level code and often assembly code that is not easy to port.
Given the size of the code, and the issues above, porting the MODI print driver for OneNote 2007 would be a LOT of work. Work that we would have to trade off directly against other improvements, and features that many users such as yourselves have been asking us for. That makes it a difficult decision. One we thought about a lot.

There have been other examples uncovered recently - I learned that the Ink Analysis API currently only supports 32-bit architectures.  This means that any application that uses this API will have to run in the WOW64 emulation.

Personally I would like to see 64-bit support throughout the OS, the APIs and the applications that Microsoft produces, but it is simply not there yet.  So the question has to be asked - if I have a machine that supports the 64-bit OS?  The answer - in fact - is no.  Here's why I say that. 

First - some background.  Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of what 64-bit is all about.

One of the key benefits of a 64-bit Operating System is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM.  From Wikipedia:

A 32-bit register meant that 232 addresses, or 4 GBs of RAM, could be referenced. At the time these architectures were devised, 4 GB of memory was so far beyond the typical quantities (0.016 GB) available in installations that this was considered to be enough "headroom" for addressing.

However - for most mobile PCs today - this is quite irrelevant for two main reasons.  The first reason is that the vast majority of mobile PCs shipping today have either one or two physical slots on the motherboard.  Since, AFAIK, the largest RAM DIMM you can buy for a laptop today is 2GB most mobile PCs therefore have a maximum memory capacity less than or equal to 4GB.

The second (and much more important) reason that for the mobile PCs on the market today, even if you install 4GB of RAM you will not see it all with either a 32-bit or a 64-bit OS.  The reasons for this were described in great detail about a year ago by Hilton Locke:

Due to an architectural decision made long ago, if you have 4GB of physical RAM installed, Windows is only able to report a portion of the physical 4GB of RAM (ranges from ~2.75GB to 3.5GB depending on the devices installed, motherboard's chipset & BIOS).

This behavior is due to "memory mapped IO reservations". Those reservations overlay the physical address space and mask out those physical addresses so that they cannot be used for working memory. This is independent of the OS running on the machine.

Significant chunks of address space below 4GB (the highest address accessible via 32-bit) get reserved for use by system hardware:

• BIOS – including ACPI and legacy video support

• PCI bus including bridges etc.

• PCI Express support will reserve at least 256MB, up to 768MB depending on graphics card installed memory

What this means is a typical system may see between ~256MB and 1GB of address space below 4GB reserved for hardware use that the OS cannot access.

The other major benefit of a 64-bit OS is that the memory bus is 64-bits wide.  The performance of a computer is going to be partially influenced by both the speed of the bus and the width of the bus.  However - that benefit is only realised if the application running on the 64-bit OS is actually a 64-bit application.  If not it is going to run in the Windows on Windows emulation and is only going to put data on the bus in 32-bit chunks.  Because the majority of applications that are available today are not 64-bit applications there will be minimal performance gain by running 64-bit OS.

So the upshot is that while you can run a 64-bit OS on many of the Tablet PCs and Mobile PCs available today, there will actually be little benefit in doing so.  Lay on top of the the pain you will encounter trying to find 64-bit drivers for hardware and missing features in applications like OneNote and it is just not worth running a 64-bit OS.  By all means buy hardware that is 64-bit capable for the sake of future proofing, but if it is a mobile PC, install the 32-bit OS for now.


64-bit | Hardware | Mobile | OneNote | XP


Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:21:56 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Interesting discussion this one. I run Vista 64 on my desktop which is quad core and 4Gb. Now, it is rock solid (I honestly can't think of one crash, apart from a couple in the game 'Oblivion') and very snappy in general use. How much of that is down to the OS or just down to higher end hardware is debateable.

There does seem to be a consensus that Vista 64 is more responsive and possibly more secure, but then I have no problems with Vista 32 on my M700, and it certainly runs all my apps very well.

The future is 64 bit I'm sure, but I think it's a couple of generations of hardware down the line, and I don't really know why HP put Vista 64 on by default onto James's tx2000, unless it was for marketing with the 'big numbers'!
Gavin Miller
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:19:48 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Nice opinion piece. I'm eagerly waiting to hear the Apple Faithful emote their responses.
StoveJebs
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:48:16 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I completely agree with your analysis. Being 64-bit capable and 64-bit usable are two different things. Buy for the capability, but until Microsoft and other application developers get on the ball, there's no point for the 64-bit OS.
GoodThings2Life
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:50:31 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
It's correct that there's a big chunk of memory reserved for hardware addresses. However, it's wrong to assume that it's impossible to use the full 4gb. My Gigabyte board has a bios setting for re-mapping memory above the addresses. When I was running 64-bit Kubuntu with that setting on, my computer (with 4gb installed) appeared to have 5 gb of ram, with "only" 4gb usable.
kahm
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:03:30 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Hi Craig,

I agree that 64-bit really isn't necessary right now especially for anyone using a tablet pc. I do want to point out that after the Vista SP1 release my 2710p is showing all 4GB of RAM that I have installed. Before SP1 it was only showing 3GB. I assume that Vista still sets aside some of that RAM but I think that there is more overall RAM available now. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.
techgeek32
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:13:23 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
@Techgeek

Unfortunately you will have the same available ram as before. SP1 just accurately reflects the installed memory. Go to task manager and it will show 3.25Gb or similar.
Gavin Miller
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:22:21 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
This is definitely a good read. On the other hand, I haven't encountered issues with looking for drivers and/or have applications that has issues. Everything is going smoothly atm. I do have a question though, if I'm understanding this correctly, he's stating that whether 32 or 64 bit is used, the memory is still the same? Is that what he is saying? The main reason for me to jump 64 bit or at least try it out is for that reason. Gain...4gig power!
@techiewacki
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:35:19 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
kahm,
you are correct, if your board & BIOS support address remapping then you will be able to address the full complement of RAM. BUT, I've not seen this on a mobile PC yet. I do expect that to change. If anyone knows of a Mobile pc that supports this today, I'd love to hear about it! :)
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:04:14 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Techgeek,
Unfortunately Gavin is right. In SP1 Vista reports all the RAM installed, even though some is not usable by the OS.
Essentially this is a hardware problem, so I would not expect future OS updates to fix it. Hilton's post goes into much more detail than I did. Well worth reading.
Craig
Comments are closed.


       





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