Rob, you don't have any issues with the touch scroll bars while writing in the OQO? Because I have more issues with that than vectoring issues in my Q1?

I turned them off. In my opinion, that is poor design on OQO's part.

Sorry for continuing off-topic here, but is it fair to classify the touch scrollers as a poor design choice, as opposed to a design compromise? I have not used an OQO, but I thought the touch scrolling was a clever idea given the difficulty of working a scrollbar with a stylus, especially on such a small screen. I can see how they would be a problem while inking, but I would think they'd be quite useful for non-inkers.

I didn't say "poor design choice"...I said poor design. The location of the touch scrollers is poor design because of how they interfere with inking. I like the touch scrollers, and they would be quite handy if they were located at the top rather than the bottom of the screen.

Fully agree with Rob. They would be a lot more useful if they were located in the top corner. But in that location where they are now it´s almost impossible to ink with them there. In overall, I love the OQO, it was faster than the U810 from Fujitsu and than the Everun. But still, a very small screen for inking. I prefer the 7 inches from my Q1. That's why I agree with you in what you are asking Motion. I think that it's time for them to jump into the UMPC boat.

Rob, I couldn't agree more.

I've done the UMPC experiment and ended up going back to a full size convertible tablet. The mobility didn't make up for the inking and overall specs of the device. I decided I'd rather have the weight and the larger screen.

I had been hoping the LS800 line would be refreshed and it never was. I had even had a slim hope that maybe they would lower the price to clear inventory against the UMPC competition - never happened.

The LS800 would have been my preferred option before and after my UMPC experiment because of its better inking exeperience and overall specs. But the lack of an update and the continued higher price kept me away. I know I'm cheap and I'm no OEM but it can't be that much more expensive for a slightly larger screen that has an active digitizer.

Your Inkshow on the LS800 was really good BTW.

Rob, your clarification that you meant the position of the scrollers is quite satisfying and I'm inclined to agree, but c'mon, "poor design choice" vs. "poor design" is just splitting hairs. It's not like they didn't choose the location of the scrollers. But for all I know, the location could be the result of a design compromise.

Yes, God or Devil, we trust in 1024 X 768 Tablet PC (& UMPC) for minimum Resolution.
Adobe Premiere Elements is unuasable on 800 x 480 interface, and so meproducts refuse to go on like Visual Studio Communicator.....


What a pity !

One key thing about the LS800 is that you can dock it to a large screen. I use a docked LS800 as my main desktop computer, and at one point Scott Eckert of Motion did the same. I drive a 1680 x 1050 external display, and although the LS800 is slower than a regular desktop computer it is worth it for me to have my main computer with me when I am mobile.

Typical UMPCs aren't powered or configured to act as one's main desktop computer. The LS800 filled an important sweet spot by providing such capability. If it is followed by an updated device from Motion or another manufacturer, the disappearance of the LS800 will be just a rite of passage, but if no device emerges to fill that space it will be a real failure for tablet PCs.

"If it is followed by an updated device from Motion or another manufacturer, the disappearance of the LS800 will be just a rite of passage, but if no device emerges to fill that space it will be a real failure for tablet PCs."

Wow, Mickey. Poetically true.

If Motion (or someone) doesn't see the need to come to market with a similar device (hopefully a little more cost competitive *cough - UMPCs - cough*), then Tablet PCs will continue to struggle and we'll be left with underpowered (overhyped and hyper ignored) UMPCs and whatever this thing called MIDs turn out to be.

I had the opportunity of trying out the LS 800, great size and weight. BUT, the killer for me was the 800x600 display and the price. I kept waiting for the 1024x768 model, and a better price.

I have had an Acer C110 since early 2003, my first Tablet. Great all around. Right size and weight. Display too dim. It sort of died after a year. Screen goes blank after a few days and taking the battery out for a few hours fixes it, then dead again a few days later. Oh well….

Now my workhorse is the M200, great display 1400x1050. After using this resolution, the 800x600 just does not make it.

I bought a P1610 (refurbished from Fujitsu for $970). Awesome tablet, with 1280x768, great size and weight, and at that price I don’t see how I could possibly look at a UMPC with the 800x480 display. The display of the P1610 is just awesome. If it only had an active digitizer. I can’t get used to the pressure activated digitizer. It takes too much pressure. The lack of vectoring is awesome thought. I just like active digitizer, period. And I like the pressure sensitive pen of the active digitizer plus the chisel effect, both lost in the process. I like to see the floating arrow on the screen to see the icons come alive and tell me what they do.

I also don’t see how the UMPCs are being used with Vista. The P1610 came with 1GB and Vista Business. Too slow. The P1610 should have capability to handle 2GB for Vista. I bought an extra HD to load Win-XP Tablet to see how that works out on the P1610.

I hope that Motion have something up their sleeve to replace the LS800. At least 1024x768 display, active digitizer, 2GB of RAM.

I second Rob's post. I've been (and still am) using the LS800 as my only computer for almost two years now : docked at work and at home to a larger screen (24" 1900x1200) and wireless bluetooth keyboards/mouse, and perfectly mobile anywhere else. None of the new UMPCs appeal to me because they only have a passive digitizer. I want a dual touch/active, or an active digitizer. Touch on it's own is near useless for inking and utterly useless for drawing.

But now, if there is no successor to the LS800, there is only the OQO left. And I'm not optimistic...

Between the time the LS800 came out in July 2005 and I got one in September 2005 I mentioned to someone at Motion that the specs seemed great except it would have been better to have 1024 x 768 instead of 800 x 600. He told me that they'd considered that but they thought the pixels per inch was too dense to be useful.

When I got my LS800 I thought it was fine for my needs. When I'm mobile I'm using our software, which will run even in 800 x 480, and using basic software such as PowerPoint, a Web browser and email, which do OK in 800 x 600 (but not so well in 800 x 480).

Clearly it is better to have a bigger screen with multiple windows open, but I get this when docked to an external display and I don't need to carry that around all day and feed its power needs.

I can understand that a bigger display on the LS800 would have included some more people, but I found the 800 x 600 worked fine for me except for rare occasions in which I needed to switch to portrait because of programs that needed more than 600 vertical pixels.

I'm sure that some of Motion's decisions were influenced by available components - apparently the same was the case for UMPCs, which used 800 x 480 since such screens were in production anyway for car navigation systems. You expect such cutting of corners in a version 1 product. But now is the time for version 2 - doing things properly.

I was rooting for Motion to come through with an LS800 successor. In 2004 I was one of those urging Motion to come out with that form factor, and felt proud when Motion came through with a device that was very close to what I urged. I'd talked to some people at Microsoft from the very day of the TabletPC launch, and indeed wrote up my "small Tablet" specs at their request, but the UMPCs that came out the other end of the process were not as good as the LS800 an implementation of what I wanted. Motion struck me as a nimble, well led company with its finger on the pulse of the user community. I was proud of them them the way Apple users are proud of Apple. It would be disappointing if they drop the torch, and even more disappointing if no one else picks up the torch.

Do a poll and see how many of you would actually buy such a machine. Argue the point of R&D costs vs. cost savings of shutting that section down.

Bhaltair, you may be right, it might not be cost effective to sell an LS800 successor and so this form factor will die away. It is the Darwinian law of capitalistic economics: only the devices that sell will survive. Fair enough, so be it. Nevertheless, I still hope against all reason that the jungle will allow this small slate to survive and produce another few generations (even if only for my own selfish pleasure). :)

We are in the (seemingly dying) minority who like these niche devices, reduced to mourning the extinction of the small form-factor slate, or keeping them more or less alive in zoos and museums (my office and home respectively).

One of the early issues with the LS800 was high temperatures from a powerful chip in a small computer. BIOS changes and using a dock instead of letting the computer sit flat on a desk turned this into a non-issue, but I wonder if there will be a hiatus for small powerful computers until the next generation of chips comes out.

Intel is reporting huge reductions in power use for their 32 nm processors expected in 2009, and various reports suggest increases in screen efficiencies as well. The processor efficiency is the most important part for system overheating, and the screen efficiency is the most important part for battery life. Will there be a hiatus in small powerful tablets until the more efficient processors and screens come out?

It would be a cheery scenario that companies like Motion are just waiting until they can do this form factor right. As of July someone at Motion told me that the LS800 "continues to sell nicely" so it seems like there is a market in-between UMPCs and large tablets. If this cheery scenario based on low power chips and displays is correct, things may move back in the direction of small powerful tablets in 2009.

I can't begin to agree with all of you more than I do right now. I honestly thought that I was one of the only people who really really admired the middle market between 12.1 inch tablets and those horrid UMPCs. I am an avid fan of active digitizing. There really is not other way to write and the whole purpose of tablet pcs is the inking functionality. Thats the sole reason I bought one. My primary computer is a HP gaming laptop. My mobile pc is a Sony TX series for gps and stuff in the truck. I miss my M1200 dearly as it finally decided to sleep forever. I bought one of those very shorlty after it came out and have LOVED it ever since. I've dreamt of a middle-of-the-line tablet that was powerful and had active digitizer in an attractive package. That's something that Motion had. I never bought one because, like the rest of you, I was ignorantly waiting for the updated model. I hate to be behind the power curve and I didn't want a machine that was going to be replaced in the next 12 months by a new deivce. I will ONLY buy from Motion, and if they fail to produce a succesor to the 800 then I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I will stop at that. I could go on for hours. :)

I'm another person who has been waiting for over a year for Motion to "Refresh" the LS800. For me the UMPC's are too underpowered and I need an Active Digitizer. The 12 inch tablets are great, but I have always felt that I would use a LS800 type of slate much more often during the day because the small size ='s a huge conveneince factor to the mobile warior like myself.

If Motion would build a LE1700 in a LS800 package I wouldn't mind spending spending an arm and a leg for it.

As a side note to the GBM moderators. If it is possible, you guys ought to paste this discusion into the forums. Because I think that once the topic drops off the bottom of the main news page, the topic discusion usually fades away.

Take care,Doug

Mickey Segal : good point about the 32nm processors, although the first devices won't come out until over a year's time. I also think they should put on a nice energy efficient razor thin OLED display (at WXGA and with a dual touch/active digitizer) ! I just saw the Sony XEL-1 OLED tv in the stores in Japan, and it's quite incredible. :) Both processors and displays should help increase battery life and make the device thinner... and expensive.

I've started a topic in the GBM forums to continue the discussion there:
http://www.gottabemobile.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4643