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Sunday, September 23, 2007

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The Vista Downgrading Debate: Time To Start Talking

- Warner Crocker

Warnerc2Small firestorm alert. In the last couple of days CNET and Engadget have blown some air on the embers that have been simmering over Vista issues. And of course in mobile circles those issues smolder pretty close to the surface. It was reported that “Microsoft is quietly allowing PC Makers to offer a downgrade option to buyers that get machines with the new operating system but want to switch to Windows XP.” Actually this isn’t really news at all. If you follow the link to this document, you’ll see that this has been available for Vista Business and Vista Ultimate customers since the beginning. The “quietly” part may be news, (I would like to think it was just because this wasn’t communicated effectively by Microsoft and not just lousy reporting), and how some OEMs are handling this may be news, but there is more to the story beyond flame fanning.

Calendars Focused on January 31, 2008 and Eyes on SP1

Fujitsu has recently started shipping an XP disc with its laptops and Tablet PCs, and other OEMS have created programs to keep customers happy at present. That only makes sense. But the real test will become clearer as we get closer to January 31, 2008. That’s the date by which Microsoft has announced that it will no longer allow OEMs to sell XP based systems. And with reports of Vista SP1 being slowly rolled out in Beta, you can bet that the rush is on to ship that service pack prior to January 31 so that Microsoft can keep to its deadline. There is a lot at stake, certainly.

The Mobile Perspective: Information Is The Key

I’ll be the first to admit that Vista doesn’t fulfill the promises of a better mobile OS, which was a part of the initial hype. That’s a shame really, but in trying to keep things in perspective, I can’t say I’m surprised. The delay of getting Vista to market and the pressure that created on the market all around was nothing short of a recipe for chaos. New machine rollout out cycles didn’t jive with the OS delay, but those next generation machines had to get out of the door in order to pay off on the investment already made before the delay was announced.

And of course as mobile users and geeks, in the absence of real information we’ve been tweaking the heck out of our systems to try and make them work better in our mobile framework. But what’s a geek to do? Issues we know about include:

  • Sleep and hibernate
  • Battery life
  • Docking and Undocking
  • Driver issues
  • ReadyBoost
  • Disk thrashing
  • Run away background processes
  • and I’m sure there are more

Most, if not all, of these issues stem from what is going on behind the scenes in Vista. SuperFetch, TMM, ReadyBoost, Remote Differential Compression, the Windows DFS Replication Service, and Beach Indexing are but some of the culprits that often get targeted as tweak candidates. But in my experimenting, I’ve come to believe that we don’t really know enough about what is going on behind the scenes in Vista to correctly identify what tweaks help and hurt in the long run. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve tried most of them and I’ve seen performance boosts initially. But after awhile, in most cases, things begin to slow down again. Rob and Matt had an interesting discussion on this in the most recent GBM Podcast. But as we tweak, in the absence of solid information, Microsoft and the OEMs are doing the same thing as evidenced by the number of updates that keeping clogging up bandwidth. Do you turn your tweaks off when your system gets updated? I admit, I don’t always do so, and that, I’m speculating could junk up the works here. Here are two inks that offer some tweaking advice for some of the issues mentioned above. (Ultra Mobile PC Tips and Notebook Review.)

The point here is that the whole thing comes down to effective communication and Microsoft has been in a bunker mentality on this. Microsoft needs to offer better explanations about what is going on with these behind the scenes processes. Even more so, Microsoft would do everyone a favor by explaining a lot more in general. A transparent Vista, with all of its faults, has got to be better than a streak smeared window.

I realize there are marketing pressures out there that lead those in control to keep a lid on things, but I think recent events in the industry, in addition to the rap Vista is now getting, have proven that users just aren’t going to take it anymore. As a small example, take a look at some of the heat, generated largely by Microsoft’s silence, over the lack of information on Vista Ultimate Extras. Microsoft, and others, ignore communication at its own peril.

 Since When Did XP Become So Great?

While it might seem like eons ago, XP isn’t too much of a distant memory for me to remember problems associated with that OS, as well as cries of waiting for SP1, followed by SP2 to be released. In fact the “Wait for SP1” chorus for XP was just as loud as the one singing for Vista today. So, I don’t think much as really changed in that regard.

Granted, by the eventual launch of Vista, things were working pretty well on XP, but I’d offer that this had as much to do with the vast user knowledge that had slowly accumulated about XP, than it had to do with the OS itself, or much communication from Microsoft. Let’s not kid ourselves. We were working with an OS that had us all rationalizing that it was a good thing to reinstall it from scratch every six months or so. We lived with XP for so long, that we had discovered and worked around most of its faults. That leads me to believe that because we haven’t yet accumulated a similar amount of knowledge about Vista, and are wandering around in the dark discovery phase, that we’ve got a bit of distance to travel on this journey. Again, the real question is whether or not Microsoft will provide us with enough of a roadmap, or just let us wander around until users figure it out on their own and share that info.

Time for a Conversation

With Vista SP1 on the horizon, I maintain that we are still a cycle or two away from getting things anywhere near close to what anyone will be satisfied with. And now there are more hurdles in that path placed there by failures of communication. But in the meantime, machines need to be sold, and they need an OS. Keep an eye on that January 31 deadline. The closer we get to it, the more critical it becomes. Microsoft needs to open up, talk about the issues and get some real information out there. The days of hunkering down in the bunker are over. Coincidentally, as I was preparing this post, Hugh MacLeod posted this article on his blog gapingvoid. His 10th point sums it up nicely.

I still happily stand by what I said about Microsoft, late last year:

For too long, Microsoft has allowed other people- the media, the competition and their detractors, especially- to tell their story on their behalf, instead of doing a better job of it themselves.

We firmly believe that Microsoft must start articulating their story better- what they do, why they do it, and why it matters- if they're to remain happy and prosperous long-term.

Let me put it another way: The future of Microsoft, and how Microsoft talks to people in the future, are one and the same. Yes, Virginia, the future of Microsoft is "Conversation."  



Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:37:52 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I'd heard of OEMs offering the choice of shipping computers with XP instead of Vista, but if there was an option of getting XP free after receiving a new computer with Vista I hadn't heard of it previously. How does this work? Does XP recognize Vista as a previous Windows installation and allow a clean install from the XP CD? What will happen when such users decide to go back to Vista?

To the list of Vista annoyances I'd add what to me is the worst bug in Vista - Windows mail often strips the hyperlinks out of text pasted into a message. The sleep and dock issues are also bad - I've seen people decide not to get Vista because of these problems.
Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:04:04 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Having used Vista for a while I have to say that Windows Vista is probably the worst operating system since ME. Things just don't work. And I don't enjoy having to pull the plug/battery to turn off the computer. At some point Microsoft has to kill the bloated legacy code and start over from scratch.
roland
Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:52:49 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Perhaps the biggest flop in Microsoft history.

I sense this is the beginning of the end for them.

For a desktop replacment, I have made up my mind the next purchase will have either MacOS or Linux. Seems I am not alone.

Microsoft still has the lead with inking but there is development going on with Linux. Apple may surprise everyone too.
Richard Lee
Sunday, September 23, 2007 4:42:51 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
The beginning of the end may be a little dramatic, but I agree there will be a small percentage of loyal Windows power users who will switch to MacOS based solely on Vista problems.
ouzome
Sunday, September 23, 2007 4:53:35 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
One report from the "downgrade" front....?Quite by accident I found out on the Lenovo site that my X60t was eligible for the downgrade to XP. It is not free but it is, in my view, certainly very reasonable. I made a 10 minute phone call and $45.00 later I have laying here on my desk the complete 7 CD XP recovery disk set specifically for my tabelt and similar Lenovo machines. Going to keep this hard drive and install XP on a new drive in hopes that Bill G and company may finally get Vista right.

My 2 cents.

Chuck
Chuck Wood
Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:41:26 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Vista definitely suffers from performance and "bloat" issues. It really is the "Paris Hilton" of operating systems-- sure it's gorgeous to look at, but that doesn't make it functional.

XP, on the other hand, hit its "super model" status at Service Pack 2. The security improvements along with the performance and stability improvements skyrocketed it to a status that is both functional and attractive. It's got that Mac OS "it just works" impression to it.

I know this is intentionally generalized, but it's the truth. If Microsoft included the "Zune" desktop theme with Service Pack 3 and started releasing updates in a "monthly update pack" instead of individual hotfixes, it would go a long way to making XP "attractive" and easing the biggest headache that remains.

I've gotten to a point where the only "extras" I have installed on my home XP systems is the Windows Live Suite (Messenger, Writer, and Photo Gallery) along with Office 2007.

--Aaron
GoodThings2Life
Sunday, September 23, 2007 7:10:16 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
A lot is said on the trustworthiness of Vista. However, I can also remember that XP was not plain sailing at the beginning. Even SP 1 and 2 were apparantly necassary before the tweaking of the OS was finally stable enough. In that regard Microsoft should clearly start to realize that customers do not judge their software by their cover anymore. Strange that the did not learn from this for Vista.

I do not think the switch of many windows OS users will be dramatic. A large portion of society, either at work or at home are windows users with Office. A common use of software makes communication, services and business more easy and thus favorable. Microsoft must however realize that if the common product is not good, it is in the end going to cost them more than their revenue.
Medic
Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:56:02 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I have used Vista Ultimate on my X61 for the past month and haven't had any problems with stability. It actually hasn't crashed on me, and I like the Aero desktop because it somehow feels more personal to me than XP. This is just my opinion.

I did a custom factory restore and eliminated program I didn't need, and am quite pleased with the performance. At times it is a little sluggish, but nothing that I worry about I try to keep low expectations so that I don't get frustrated with it.
Alex
Monday, September 24, 2007 12:57:50 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I'm not sure the bloat is the legacy. I think it's the new features, but the plain fact is that we don't know what is going on in the background. Reports that one every few clock cycles goes into drm suggest a level of complexity way beyond modern hardware -- particularly in the tablet scene, where portability has become a more popular design theme. New features obviously were not well tested, based on all the failures.

I am about to buy a new tablet. It almost certainly will come with XP.
Cuhulin
Monday, September 24, 2007 3:51:58 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I'm running Vista Home Premium (Upgrade disc) on an old Athlon XP machine which had serious flaws under XP - Vista has downloaded all the necessary drivers, suggested possible (and relevant solutions/fixes) and has the beloved old box working without a hitch. On a brand new Core 2 Duo laptop, Vista has been more problematic; endless program crashes and disruptive shutdowns. For my birthday, my girlfriend (among other things) gave a me copy of David Pogue's excellent book, "Switching to the Mac:The Missing Manual"
Chris
Monday, September 24, 2007 5:59:09 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
"I’ll be the first to admit that Vista doesn’t fulfill the promises of a better mobile OS..." That's why almost every post in the forum is how Vista is great and all?
I upgraded Vista because of the posts in this forum.

I've decided to keep it on my Fujitsu for now, but I made that decision a few days ago. I haven't had a crash or any problems with it yet besides not being able to access certain parts of programs because of permissions (Anti Spy can't update because it can't 'find' a file due to not being able to overwrite) etc. It also runs a bit slower when shutting down/opening up programs. It runs hotter. But other than that, I have not one gripe about it.

It IS much bigger. I only have 30 gigs free on my 80 gig drive after installation. My XP had at least 60 gigs free.
Is there a way to uninstall a bunch of bloat to get the space back? :)

For those who always threaten to go to Linux... GO for it. The hours/weeks/months/years of learning that system would be way too much opportunity cost for me. I've seen Linux crash over and over as well. I've seen it get hacked by newbs in Japan. I've had 4 different versions of it.. and I hate it. The learning curve is way too expensive.
GoingPaperless
Monday, September 24, 2007 9:40:32 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I have Vista Ultimate on my M400 and X61 and I have had no problems. I personaly feel for me that Vista is even more stable then XP. I hear all these Vista horror stories on the net and I just don't get it. Vista is great for me!!

Take care, Doug
dpeters8445
Monday, September 24, 2007 9:48:41 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Some great conversation and great contributions going on here, folks. If nothing else it proves that the Vista mileage does indeed vary. As an example, I've got two co-workers who've both recently purchased new computers with Vista. One is having no difficulty, the other is ready to tear her hair out with frustration.
Monday, September 24, 2007 8:57:19 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I have to admit I don't know where to go with Vista. The approach I have taken with each
release of Windows (since version 3.0) has been to select suitable desktop and mobile
machines and perform clean installs, usually at beta release stage, then work through the
issues to arrive at stable installations before adopting the OS across all my machines,
upgrading hardware as required. With Vista this simply has not worked, since after about
one year I still do not have what I consider stable installations. I've convinced my
daugther to just stay with XP for the present time; my son has got fed up with the wait
and has bought a MacBook and I am just tired by the effort it takes to stay with
Microsoft but I have too much invested in knowledge of Microsoft OSs, so what do I do?
Old Timer
Monday, September 24, 2007 11:46:59 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Until the main piece of software I use in my medical office tells me they're comfortable with Vista... well it's XP for me.
cphickie
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:15:17 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I have no problems with Vista besides my pen not clicking buttons sometimes (hitting X to shut down a program) when the IR keyboard will, the higher resources used, and having less space on my hard drive.
Other than that, no issues to report. It never has crashed, and most programs have worked well with it.
GoingPaperless
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